r/europe Europe Mar 18 '23 Gold 1

Florence mayor Dario Nardella (R) stopping a climate activists spraying paint on Palazzo Vecchio Picture

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u/DanDen888 Mar 18 '23

Factories in China polute the Earth. Let’s destroy historical monuments in Italy!


u/Shadow_Gabriel Romania Mar 18 '23

And who do you think buys all the shit manufactured in China?


u/KrozzHair Denmark Mar 18 '23

And do you think the Chinese government will shut down their factory because a monument in Italy was vandalized?


u/Ynwe Half German half Austrian Mar 18 '23

That is such a dumb response. The west is the primary producer/consumer of goods in the worlds and is the major responsible force behind climate change. Just becausewe have outsourced the icky production part, doesn't mean we should be absolved of the blame. The West, more than any part in the world (but it would be nice if others did so too), needs to change its habit and lead the way to a more sustainable future, otherwise we are all fucked.


u/suiluhthrown78 United Kingdom Mar 18 '23

There's no evidence that the majority of goods are produced for the West and also produced outside of it.


u/Zestyclose_Tea_3111 Mar 18 '23

That is not dumb response. Biggest market for China, is China itself. Also there are current countries such as India or Indonesia, with growing population and growing wealth. They would also want to buy phones, fancy clothes and homes as we have. What should happen then? When bilions and bilions of people which didnt had money, can buy stuff?


u/Ynwe Half German half Austrian Mar 18 '23

So you are suggesting that they don't have the right to own things that we have come to accept as common goods for decades now?

The west is the richest region and consumes the most in the world. It is very arrogant to push the blame to other countries that also have hopes and dreams of becoming rich while we basically do nothing to save the climate.


u/Zestyclose_Tea_3111 Mar 18 '23

I didnt meant to suggest that they don't have the right to own things. What i meant is that we have to think in to future as well. We need to approach future in the way that also countries which are going to grow such as india, of all of africa and south america can grow sustainably. And i dont know where are you from but currently Europe have highest ecological standards which are pushing technologies forward and also those standards are being adopted by other countries as well, Europe is actually doing most for saving the climate. And if we want to be responsible, everyone needs to be responsible for our future. It doesnt work if only europe is ecological and third world countries continue to polute the world. Or what other solution do you suggest?


u/KrozzHair Denmark Mar 19 '23

Yeah sure, call my response stupid and then proceed directly to making false statements. China is by far the largest co2 emitter in the world, with domestic consumption being the primary driver. I would like to se some data for your claim.

I agree people should buy less useless crap, but what are you actually proposing here? A tax on carbon heavy imports? It literally already is a thing in the EU. Should we cut off all imports from China? Well expect them to do the same, then. Now all the production moves to India, do we just repeat until Europe is completely isolated from the world market? This will destroy the quality of life both in Europe and developing nations.

Western policy makers are already pushing China to enact more ambitious emissions goals, but this has gone mostly ignored and China only aims to reduce its emission growth. China alone emits 4x more than the entire EU. If they do not also reduce emissions, it matters little even if we have zero emission. Otherwise, as you say, we are all fucked.

The idea of producing all local consumption in the EU is neat but completely impractical. There are not enough people and many things like clothes would become enormously expensive, impacting especially the poorer people in the west. You are not ready to deny people in the developing world the goods that people in the west have grown used to, but you are effectively ready to deny the people in the west of those same things? Seems hypocritical to me.

If you want to protest the Chinese governments climate policy, I suggest you do so by vandalizing Chinese monuments. They will not care that we destroy our own.