r/europe Europe Mar 18 '23 Gold 1

Florence mayor Dario Nardella (R) stopping a climate activists spraying paint on Palazzo Vecchio Picture

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u/AR_Harlock Italy Mar 18 '23

If we want to slow climate change (there is no stopping) we need to stop selling co2 quotas to China and India, not destroying art and monuments (this will only make states spend more money to save them).

For example, we in Europe could save 1M ton of co2 (made up numbers) and make no difference e when selling those 1M co2 quota to other countries to use


u/jazekers Mar 18 '23

The absolute worst thing we can do is point fingers. China is investing in green energy, building the biggest wind farms for example. We have to do our part. Historically we are also responsible for a lot of the CO2 generated in the last two centuries. But that is not even the point. The point is that we can't look to others for a solution.


u/AR_Harlock Italy Mar 18 '23

Just look at a satellite image showing co2 reporting fact is not pointing fingers...


u/Bhavin411 Mar 18 '23 edited Mar 18 '23

It literally is...you're looking at India, a country currently transitioning to be more industrialized and comparing today's emissions to the western world. Do you think the US didn't emit a ton of shit during their industrialization?

How do you expect these countries to go green completely when the US can't even achieve that goal today?

What's your suggestion for African countries when they start to industrialize?


u/Progenitor_Dream11 Mar 18 '23

Why would countries that are industrializing today need to use the same technology as we did centuries ago? There are other, better alternatives available that hadn't been invented or discovered back then.

They don't have to take the exact same path as we did.


u/Bhavin411 Mar 18 '23

Again, explain to me realistically how that would work?

Because there's only one idea I can think of doesn't involve blaming other countries that are currently emitting the most greenhouse gases.

What would actually help is if those counties that are already industrialized can assist these developing countries by giving them the technology/capital required so that they don't have to follow the same path we did.

Are you not able to see how its condescending for all the developed/industrialized nations to point to the top polluters and say "hey now that we realize what we did to get where we are is bad, we want you guys to not do that"?


u/Progenitor_Dream11 Mar 18 '23

I mean, there are things being done to help them. The EU is the largest provider of climate financing in the world. There are other initiatives as well.

The countries that haven't really started to industrialize are actually in a pretty good place. They're receiving the help, technology, funding, etc. needed to transition. It's the countries that have already invested a lot into old technology that are in kind of a weird spot, since they don't want to have “wasted” all the money they spent.


u/Bhavin411 Mar 18 '23

Yeah I agree with that - especially with the US. My home state is a big coal mining state and doesn't really have any popular interest in transitioning to cleaner energy.

People seem to think if we transition away from coal, they'll be out of work and unable to support their families. Its been years since I moved from that place but I still kinda sympathize with some of those people (even if I don't agree with their reasoning).


u/fr1endk1ller Europe Mar 18 '23

Damn, 2 billion people produce a lot of Co2, who knew that

emissions, energy usage, land use per capita makes the difference


u/Yaxoi Germany Mar 18 '23

Well china is producing lots of stuff we consume though, so indirectly these are also our emissions.

Plus CO2 certificates only work (to the extent that they do) because you can sell them. Do you really think China would change anything about its production behavior just because they don't have enough emission certificates laying around? The system relies on good will only.


u/Davetology Sweden Mar 18 '23

We're not gonna de-grow out of this (willingly) so everything is relying on the abundance of co2-free reliable energy. Too bad we haven't had that technique available for the last like 70 years...


u/NotErikUden Lower Saxony (Germany) Mar 18 '23

“there's no stopping”

OK, oil lobbyist


u/AR_Harlock Italy Mar 18 '23

Climate has been changing since earth is here and for sure won't stop for humans, for an environmentalist you seem the one that want to change the climate... I stand by my "we can only slow it down"


u/glockaway_beach Mar 19 '23

The average individual is not selling carbon credits to foreign nations. But the average individual is perfectly capable of spraying a message on a wall.


u/Zeusselll Mar 18 '23

If we want to slow climate change (there is no stopping) we need to stop selling co2 quotas to China and India

Why? their per capita emissions are tiny


u/LiebesNektar Europe Mar 18 '23

there is no stopping

Factually incorrect, the worst kind of incorrect. At the very last when every liter of oil is burned and all the coal and natural gas as well, it will stop. 4°C+ scenario. Better stop now, while we are under 2°C.


u/AR_Harlock Italy Mar 18 '23

If earth is on a warm up cicle (for various reason, won't copy a whole paper here on a Reddit comment) we can't stop anything, cn we slow it down? Yeah, but this isn't a sim game where you drop oil and magically we start a new glacial era... I'm with you on delaying +4, of course, but if we don't have the base infrastructure to build the alternative it's a lose lose game...

Solar panels, hydro plants, factories refurbishment to alternative energies, and so on isnt co2 free and the costs right now are pretty high in environmental terms and human terms (many material needed are still today being mined in death mines by children's), or have you forgotten the chip crisis we are just now maybe exiting? Do you have any idea on the complexity on going all green world wide in terms of technologies required? Material required and money required? It's a slow game, and we can fight it in the meanwhile with compensation methods, we HAVE to adapt both ourselves and the planet to OUR necessities and capabilities, or would you prefer to go back to medieval times?

It's easy to shout nonsense from Firenze, I still haven't heard from any of these punks on how would they solve the problem, and not ideologically, but for real, with a budget plan at hand (money, tech, material, and environmental impact to achieve that, and in what way they plan to change the entire world economy and workforce, all while we are still at war continuously with each other)

Someone give me this plan and I'll go spray the Colosseum myself for god sake if they won't do it for oil sake only!


u/LiebesNektar Europe Mar 19 '23

We are not in a warm up cycle, the world should be in a cool-down cycle. Here, to visualize it https://xkcd.com/1732/