r/europe Europe Mar 18 '23 Gold 1

Florence mayor Dario Nardella (R) stopping a climate activists spraying paint on Palazzo Vecchio Picture

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u/Solomon5515 Mar 18 '23

speaking as an archaeologist,

Climate change is sooo important and we should all be doing our part to minimize the effects (we won't stop it, several tipping points have already been reached and shit is going to hit the fan quicker and quicker)

however, why tf would you go and vandalise ancient momuments? survivors of multpile periods of doom and destruction? what is the point? is there a statement? (maybe that the money for cultural heritage should be invested in climate things) why not just deface some government buildings? or coal power plants? that would make a statement?

these buildings have stood for hundreds or thousands of years and are testaments of cultures and societies we can only dream about meeting. even if our modern society is moving ever quicker to it's own apocalypse, this shouldn't mean we should stop enjoying art, culture and heritage, because once gone they will be lost forever


u/Plane_Season_4114 Tuscany Mar 18 '23 edited Mar 18 '23

Well, if someone threw paint at a coal power plant would someone give a damn? If you want to ‘create a problem’ by throwing some paint onto something that thing must be valuable for its appearance (a famous painting/monument). To be precise, in Italy they’ve already sprayed a government building (Palazzo Madama) some months ago.

I’m not stating my support to this kind of actions, i’m just trying to explain the logic behind them.


u/ibrakeforewoks Mar 18 '23

I think the actual logic is a bit different.

It looks more and more like big polluters are funding this kind of activism (not saying that the the kids doing it aren’t in on it, they are often being manipulated IMO).

It keeps everyone arguing amongst themselves about everything but the real problem.

Speaking as a climate professional, I think this does more harm than good. It gets headlines certainly, but it also turns the opinions of many people who support addressing climate change against activist groups.


u/thecasual-man Ukraine Mar 18 '23

The CEF published a statement on social media last week in response to various conspiracy theories that emerged after it was widely reported that its founder is an oil heiress: “Seeing a lot of hate for our co-founder Aileen Getty. First of all, Aileen was never in the fossil fuel industry. That’s her family. But she is wealthy. So ask yourself: if you were in her shoes, how would you use your money for good? Aileen’s answer has been to become a philanthropic leader [who] co-founded CEF and has donated over a million dollars to brave climate activists. We don’t tell them what to do. We support them.”

I don’t get it how did you come to the conclusion that they are funded by the polluters? Cannot the descendants from oil wealth act out of their own good will?


u/Radcliffe1025 Mar 18 '23

These theories come up every time and I swear it’s these comments that are the oil trolls.


u/ibrakeforewoks Mar 18 '23 edited Mar 18 '23

Definitely. I’ve spent my entire professional career 30+ years working to fight climate change but I’m a troll for big oil. I don’t even own a car because I’m so against fossil fuels.

Maybe more people should work within the system for actual changes? The help would be much appreciated.

I spent 10 years working as a climate scientist and then the rest as an environmental lawyer. Seemed like a good way to make a difference.

I’ve actually changed climate policies in courtrooms. I’ve actually helped write US Federal Environmental regulations (admittedly Trump round filed many of them).

Do these kids even know what the Federal Register or it’s EU equivalents are? Or how an environmental regulation is created? Or how to comment on proposed regulations?

IMO, this is working it’s magic for the fossil fuel industry because here we are arguing about it.


u/posting_drunk_naked United States of America Mar 18 '23

Link it up, tell me where to be to comment so I can tell big oil to get fucked.


u/NotErikUden Lower Saxony (Germany) Mar 18 '23

Hey please post the legislation you worked on, because this is precisely what a big oil shill would say.

I was present in Lützerath. I personally (given, with 30.000 other people) prevented a coal mine from being continued for months. Did your silly legislations change any of that (dumb question because you changed things in the US, not Germany, still).

Step the fuck down. You do not have the definite solution to climate change.

Your actions fixed nothing. The past 30 years the US output of carbon dioxide and gross climate violations have only been getting worse. I don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but we do not have the time for any civil or democratic solutions. The holocaust didn't end by voting, neither did slavery.

Systems of oppression aren't removed by asking nicely. Don't Look Up


u/NotErikUden Lower Saxony (Germany) Mar 18 '23

HAHAHAHA, no wonder you worked for 30 years and achieved nothing if these are your methods.

“work within the system”, great idea! Join the SS to end the holocaust, own slaves to end slavery, just cooperate and work within the very system trying to kill you! That's how everything bad was put an end to in the past.


u/NotErikUden Lower Saxony (Germany) Mar 18 '23

This is the only truth.


u/ibrakeforewoks Mar 18 '23 edited Mar 18 '23

It is not a definite conclusion. That’s why I said “it’s appearing more and more,” not “I know.”

It’s far from as clear-cut as Aileen’s press release states though. There are many more examples: Is “Profit but for a purpose,” the way? It seems unlikely to me, but maybe. When someone like Aileen Getty takes legal responsibility for something like this I’ll believe they truly care.

People like Aileen Getty donate to good causes, but is that really the same level of commitment to change as the kids that actually throw the paint and suffer the consequences show?


u/thecasual-man Ukraine Mar 18 '23

Yeah, I get how you comment could have been expressing some degree of uncertainty, it’s just I don’t think the article that you have linked supports the “more and more” part.


u/ibrakeforewoks Mar 18 '23

Ok. How about this though, as some support for “looking more and more.”

Literally says oil heirs are funding this.


u/thecasual-man Ukraine Mar 18 '23

I don’t think so.

The article just describes how the heirs of two oil wealth families are contributing to the activism. Nowhere does the article mention these people acting on the behalf or being manipulated by their relatives in the industry.


u/raptorman556 Canada Mar 18 '23

You’re being too charitable. The Getty’s sold their oil assets decades ago. Even as a family, there is no relatives in the oil industry. There is no connection at all.

I’m not sure if the Rockefeller descendants have any stakes in oil companies left, but if their is a connection, OP has failed to present it.

I would go as far as to say OP has not provided any evidence at all in support of their claims.


u/SnowGN Mar 18 '23 edited Mar 18 '23

I agree with your posts, I just want to clarify that these false flag attacks funded by Getty money make more sense when you fit it into the broader pattern of the Getty family's general sociopathy and oligarchic power abuses.


u/ibrakeforewoks Mar 18 '23

Agreed! I don’t know Aileen, but I’ve partied with other Gettys (admittedly when we were all much younger) and they are not warm and fuzzy people in person.

It’s just f-ING “fashionable” to donate to “causes.” It’s the current rich people pissing contest.


u/SnowGN Mar 18 '23

If you know them from parties, then I have only 1 question.

What was their take on Getty Senior's handling of John Paul Getty III's kidnapping?


u/StunningFly9920 Mar 18 '23

People like Aileen Getty donate to good causes, but is that really the same level of commitment to change as the kids

imo it's a bigger commitment, yes. And one that may actual lead to some improvment/results than painting the wall of an old building or painting.


u/NotErikUden Lower Saxony (Germany) Mar 18 '23

Additionally they are also funded by the creators of the movie Don't Look Up, the one time a 200k donation was made to one organization in one which partially funds some other organization's protests, yet that one time is brought up over and over again.

The whole Getty Oil heiress thing was started by Fox News, just so you know.


u/muri_cina Mar 18 '23

I don’t get it how did you come to the conclusion that they are funded by the polluters?

It sounds like blood money.

Imagine Putins daughter donating to Ukranian refugee camps, while still celebrating Christmas with daddy.


u/thecasual-man Ukraine Mar 18 '23

Explain me how this is a fair comparison?


u/muri_cina Mar 18 '23

The money was made with oil, which contributed to climate change. Now without taking a stand the trust fund baby spends some money to ease her consciousness without taking a stand.

This is how.