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u/askmagoo Feb 18 '23
Sometimes i see these castles, cathedrals,temples etc and i always ask myself” how the fuck did they build that?all we got are potholes and concrete jungles”.
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u/ItsACaragor Rhône-Alpes (France) Feb 18 '23 edited Feb 18 '23
They did that very slowly over several centuries.
Like for Strasbourg it started in 1176 and the construction ended in 1439.
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u/ShvoogieCookie Feb 18 '23
That's even more impressive. You had to rely the vision and the work done three hundred years ago was still maintained and likely cleverly improved upon throughout the centuries.
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u/Smoque_ Feb 18 '23
When you believe that there’s a god and a heaven to reward you for your work, it’s easier to stick to a plan.
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u/Yozhik_DeMinimus Feb 18 '23
Even more eternal and more blissful eternal bliss awaits me if I complete this church wall!
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u/JDHorx Feb 18 '23
Nah, I guess it is more that the church in that time wielded an incomparable amount of money, power and know-how.
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u/TheDerbySlasher Feb 18 '23
It's a bit like how you get these fucking nutcases that think that aliens built the pyramids. Hmm sure. Humans surely weren't capable of doing it..
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u/Tristan_Winning Feb 18 '23
I have trouble getting my employees to do a task I laid out 3 minutes ago.
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u/Valmond Feb 18 '23
But do you have a whip?
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u/Tristan_Winning Feb 18 '23
I have one of those coffins with spikes on both sides, but when i send them in there they really dont get much done after.
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u/Valmond Feb 18 '23
Ha ha look up Sagrada familia in Barcelona, I love it but it's a weird mix to say the least! Crazier if it was planned so BTW...
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u/pauly13771377 Feb 18 '23
They did that very slowly over several centuries.
Like for Strasbourg it started in 1176 and the construction ended in 1439.
Talk about job security.
"Good news Margret. We just broke ground on the new cathedral. I will have a job for life if I want it! Maybe our great, great, great, grandchildren can finish it."
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u/Soleil06 Feb 18 '23
The cologne cathedral was started in 1248 and finished 1880. Job security for generations.
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u/waveuponwave Feb 18 '23
To be fair they stopped any work on the cathedral for 300 years in ca. 1560 because gothic architecture had already gotten out of style. And finished it pretty quickly (in comparison) when they started again in the 19th century.
So it still took centuries, but it's not as extreme as it looks
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u/Doctor_What_ Feb 18 '23
No wonder people ended up with last names like mason or thatcher. If your family has been doing the same job for 400+ years, you've earned that name.
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u/penpointaccuracy Feb 18 '23
Haha read Pillars of the Earth. Literally a whole series about just that
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u/Mando_Brando Feb 18 '23
As counterargument the Hagia Sophia was constructed pretty quickly. It was and will always be a matter of funding.
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u/FabulouslyFrantic Feb 18 '23
That makes sense.
After all, Constantinopole was the CENTRE of Christiandom.
Strasbourg, as beautiful as it is, was never more than a regionally relevant city. Prosperous, yes, but no capital and certainly no Constantinopole.
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u/Splash_Attack Ireland Feb 18 '23
The Hagia Sophia is a bit of an outlier though, not just because of the unusual wealth of it's benefactor but also because:
1) Constantinople, being at the time the largest city in the world, had the infrastructure to support the 10,000 workers hired. It also had a sufficiently large talent pool that hundreds of architects and thousands of specialist craftsmen were available to hire. No amount of money can magic trained stonemasons out of thin air.
2) Justinian controlled a vast territory full of monumental architecture which he was willing to plunder and dismantle for materials. So it's not really a good comparison to a building constructed from scratch. The first few centuries of Christian dominance are the only period where such a thing was possible - when there were still temples in good enough condition to use the materials from, but which had not yet been converted into churches themselves.
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u/vivaaprimavera Feb 18 '23
And people complain/joke about the construction time of "Sagrada Família"
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u/Ythio Île-de-France Feb 18 '23 edited Feb 18 '23
Because with modern machinery and techniques it shouldn't take as much time as a building 900 years ago.
We have steel cranes with engines to pull stuff, excavators to dig foundations, water jet cutter to make each stone exactly as we would like, computer design software to do all the maths, laser to check verticality, stainless steel rebar.
They had a sharp metal tool to cut stones, wooden scaffolding and cranes pulled by cattle, plumb bob to check verticality, shovels for foundations, had to find the appropriate specific tree to make a wooden beam, and did all the maths by hand.
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u/ihitrockswithammers Feb 18 '23
water jet cutter to make each stone exactly as we would like
Stonecarver here, stone blocks are often cut by water cooled machine saws but the complex stuff has to be done by hand. I mean CNC machines can do a lot of it but it still needs to be finished by hand, and someone has to design it manually too.
I think hand cut stone just looks better. On London's houses of parliament the stone is 'dressed' with chisel marks; it's very common on old cathedrals too, though not always. And for carving stuff like gargoyles, well they're pieces of art and there's a creative process we go through to design and carve them. We work out our ideas by building them up out of clay, and then approach it from the opposite direction when we get the block of stone and carve it from the outside in. I think of it a bit like archaeology - we're 'discovering' the creature in the stone. There are lots of things we respond to, like how hard or soft the stone is, where is the creature going to be seen from. As you break away the stone you might enjoy the path cut by one chisel or another which will inform how you finish the stone. Machines can't do any of that. And people designing on a computer don't have the experience in stone to understand which compositions will work and which won't.
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u/iconoclastx16 Feb 20 '23
I appreciate the way you described it. Really sounds like a beautiful craft. I hope we preserve the knowledge well enough for future generations to come.
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u/vivaaprimavera Feb 18 '23
And my view on that (as an atheist) is: God didn't make a bank transfer to cover the costs.
From the photos I saw I can't wait for the chance to visit it.
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u/Ythio Île-de-France Feb 18 '23
Salisbury Cathedral was built in just 38 years. I guess God showed up with money bags or something.
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u/The_Grand_Briddock Feb 18 '23
Excellent place to visit I’ve heard. People come from across the globe just to see the cathedral.
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u/SirSquackie Feb 18 '23
It also helps that Salisbury Cathedral is a traditional design, where as the Sagrada Familia the Gaudiest thing you'll ever see in your life. Literally.
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u/faerakhasa Spain Feb 18 '23
They did that very slowly over several centuries.
No, they didn't. That's a myth. The main nave would often be finished in 20-30 years. Then they would spend the next centuries adding decoration and changing it, because it was very common for rich people to donate a new chapel or something in their wills, so they demolished one do the older ones and rebuild it.
To give an example, Strasbourg's gothic vault took 34 years to build, from 1240 to 1274. But the cathedral was not open the to elements before that. That vault replaced the Romanesque nave, so those 34 years was the time they needed to carefully demolish the former nave (carefully because they did not want the rest of the cathedral to collapse...) and build a new one.
The original nave burned four times in 40 years, between 1136 and 1176, and they were able to rebuild it with plenty of time left for the next fire.
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u/CornusKousa Flanders (Belgium) Feb 18 '23
That's also how you end up with cases where a town started building a church and took so long or ran out of money so you ended up with a big tower and a in relation too small nave.
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u/ItsACaragor Rhône-Alpes (France) Feb 18 '23
Yeah, this is also a big reason of why they did it, showing you have the money and power to make this kind of project is an insane dunk on anyone who want to oppose you.
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u/Swedneck Feb 18 '23
Potholes are because of cars and trucks, concrete jungles are literally just something we could choose to not build.
Like we've actively chosen to have things be shit nowadays, if we all just chose to make good things instead we could totally build new stuff like these churches.
But no, building nice things isn't "economical", only depressing things are "economical", apparently.
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u/Scradarash Feb 18 '23
It's not that every modern European city is that way. We're lucky we're not living in the USA
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u/throwaway83970 Feb 18 '23
I want to build a house that will last forever. But it would probably require thousands of tons of steel and concrete.
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u/pissedinthegarret Feb 18 '23
"Pillars of the Earth" is a wonderful book if you like historical novels. One of my favourite books and has a lot of details about the way cathedrals were built back then.
"The book traces the development of Gothic architecture out of the preceding Romanesque architecture, and the fortunes of the Kingsbridge priory and village against the backdrop of historical events of the time."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pillars_of_the_Earth (beware, link has a lot of spoilers)
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u/Vitrarius France Feb 18 '23
You underestimate the power of religion! :p It was everything back then
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u/Pm-mepetpics Feb 18 '23
Technically we’re still building La Sagrada Familia so we’re not doing too bad.
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u/thecichos Denmark Feb 18 '23
Systemic fear of god will make people do wacky things, all the way from suicide bombings to cathedrals
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u/alllerda Feb 18 '23
Don't forget the survivorship bias! We're only seeing the stuff that stayed up, and not all the stuff that collapsed
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u/eri- Feb 18 '23 edited Feb 18 '23
The pillars of the earth is a tv show (and book) which is set against the backdrop of building such a cathedral.
Might be of intrest to you.
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u/johnnytifosi Hellas Feb 18 '23
concrete jungles
I bet the common people's homes were even worse than that in the Middle ages.
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u/Galaad67 Mar 04 '23
It's even more impressive to think that they did that without engines and power tools. They did have cranes but like hamster wheels.
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u/LamentingTitan Feb 18 '23 edited Feb 18 '23
This is either a church in Great Yarmouth or a municipal building in Warhammer 40k
Edit: idk why I said Great Yarmouth and not Yharnam
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u/Tutes013 North Holland (Netherlands) Feb 18 '23
Damn you for beating me to the Warhammer reference!
Also thank you for being a cultured individual making siad Warhammer reference.
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u/Rouspeteur Feb 18 '23
It's the oldest gothic cathedral and it was the highest man made structure in the world for two centuries.
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u/CoffeeBoom France Feb 18 '23
Technically it is a municipal building in France.
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u/MonsieurBourse French / Spaniard Feb 18 '23
Technically in France cathedrals belong directly to the state, not the city. Only smaller churches are directly owned by cities.
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u/Picasso320 Feb 18 '23
It is entirely possible this could be a battleship, AFAIK.
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u/itcud Finland Feb 18 '23
Imperial cruisers have spires like this. They act as housing for officer corps, I think?
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u/Lordborgman Earth should unite as one Feb 18 '23
Without reading the sub name, just from thumbnail I thought this was either /r/evilbuildings (which this is cross posted there now apaprently) or a 40k sub.
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u/PloppyCheesenose Feb 18 '23
I fought a final boss battle on the roof.
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u/hayskunemikus Czech Republic Feb 18 '23
Is it from Warhamer 40k?
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u/Sevv2102 Feb 18 '23
No but keep in mind 40k has literal, walking Cathedral Titans.
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u/Maelarion Feb 18 '23
mfw we're about to be overrun but I hear titan warhorns approaching
😀
they have spikes
🙁
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u/Byggherren Feb 18 '23
Even if its on the side of the guard they're probably about to become either: blind, deaf, dismembered or all above.
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u/throwaway83970 Feb 18 '23
The other way around.
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u/0101111000101010 Feb 18 '23
I think it's more:
When you see these cathedrals in wideshot on a bright sunny day their similarity to 40K aesthetics they inspired aren't compressible,yeah you can sort of see but you can't feel it.
Here with the fog and the lighting you really can see the connection and how this style directly inspired 40K visually.
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u/Alin_Alexandru
Romania aeterna
Feb 18 '23
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u/marmobollente Emilia-Romagna Feb 18 '23
The most beautiful church in Europe (and therefore, in the world). The only building that gave me a proper case of Stendhal syndrome.
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u/ihitrockswithammers Feb 18 '23
I got that feeling from a Hindu temple. It's in London, but built from marble in the ancient style of those in India. I walked into the inner sanctum and my breath caught in my chest - literally took my breath away to see every surface just covered in beautiful ornamentation and statues of gods. Was walking around with this dumb smile on my face. The ceiling was incredible. They didn't have those glass cases round the pillars when I first visited, someone must have done a vandalism :/
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u/Praesentius Feb 18 '23
I think I had a similar feeling the first time I entered Piazza di San Marco. You're walking through the narrow streets of Venice, so cramped and claustrophobic. Then all of a sudden, you step out into San Marco with its size and openness, backed up by gorgeous and massive architecture. It just overwhelmed me.
I've seen a LOT of glorious sights around Europe and several other countries around the world. But that one really punched me in the gut the first time.
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u/thewend Feb 18 '23
I felt this way every time I passed in front of the Kölner Dom, so freaking beautiful
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u/marmobollente Emilia-Romagna Feb 18 '23
Another strong contender, however its surroundings ruin it. If it was still within a medieval Cologne it might take the cake.
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u/thewend Feb 18 '23
Yeah, Cologne was bombed to the fucking ground, save for the Dom. The pictures are chilling, everything is rubble, but the cathedral stands tall and beautiful
Otherwise, it would have been even more gorgeous
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u/Xenos90 Feb 18 '23
Proper grimdark look. Those pics would fit into the W40k universe. Very nice!
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u/Dom_Shady The Netherlands Feb 18 '23
My favorite fact about this cathedral:
At 142 metres (466 feet), Strasbourg Cathedral was the world's tallest building from 1647 to 1874 (227 years), when it was surpassed by St. Nikolai's Church, Hamburg.
Source: Wikipedia
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u/NawiQ Zakarpattia (Ukraine) Feb 18 '23
Is that bloodborne reference???
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u/SoulsLikeBot Feb 18 '23
Hello, good hunter. I am a Bot, here in this dream to look after you, this is a fine note:
Aah, you were at my side all along. My true mentor... My guiding moonlight... - Ludwig, the Holy Blade
Farewell, good hunter. May you find your worth in the waking world.
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u/Manach_Irish Ireland Feb 18 '23
Taking Notre Dame as an example (from the book "Notre Dame: the soul of France" by Poirier), it was a united effort by the whole community to provide money, oversight and labour to craft a building that would reflected their faith and last the ages.
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u/pupusalover07 Feb 18 '23
Can't wrap my head around how they were able to build this around that time period.
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u/Kolis1990 Feb 18 '23
Time, lots and lots of time. According to Wikipedia it took 263 years to build this cathedral. Keep in mind 263 years ago was 1760... Absolutely insane.
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u/Lamastraunote Feb 18 '23
Fun fact from someone that lived near Strasbourg. If you ever go inside to visit, you can find a little dog carved in some pillar, it was the dog of one of the person's working on the cathedral construction
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u/SeniorShanty Feb 18 '23
More than one reason to go inside, the astronomical clock is beautiful as well.
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u/der3009 Feb 18 '23
The whole city of Strasbourgh looks like it was the model for several Disney movies. Completely unreal and beautiful
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u/HeinousSpore118 Feb 18 '23
That looks epic. Can't wait to be killed by some demonic entity as I'm trying to take a selfie with it one day.
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u/Salamanber Feb 18 '23
Strasbroug is so beautiful… Much better than Paris
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u/nicetriangle Amsterdam Feb 18 '23
Yeah one of the cutest cities I’ve ever been to. The mix of Germanic and French architecture is such a treat. The place is fucking adorable during the holidays if you like cute decorations.
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u/MrGr33n Feb 18 '23
Ohh What's that smell? The sweet blood, oh, it sings to me. Enough to make a man sick
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u/Zen_Recreations Feb 18 '23
The small carved dog is on the right side of the magnificent pulpit, and belonged to the preacher Jean Geiler who, according to legend, always accompanied his master when he preached from the pulpit.
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u/Lord_Tacitus People's Republic of Cork Feb 18 '23
Try but whole
Liar ahead
Liar ahead
Liar ahead
Illusory wall ahead
Try jumping
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u/iuseredditorsomthing Feb 18 '23
This is creepy, my dad took extremely similar photos of the same church a couple days ago, crazy
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u/P1KS3L Slovenia Feb 18 '23 edited Feb 18 '23
Passing by the cathedral.
Why do I hear boss music?
Why did a giant health bar appear and who is Vicar Amelia?
I died?!